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  • happyfish
    Participant
    Post count: 12

    Do you have preflop charts ? Yes, I have charts from a HU Sng stable. They are designed for micros.

    How is your knowledge about odds and outs? I know how to calculate them and what pot odds I need if I have x outs.

    Do you know what hands to rejam with? I have created a few charts for different open raise ranges. So if villain is open raising x% and calls my shove with y% then I can shove z%. But I think that I can still put more work in this theme.

    Do you have ICMizer/HRC? Yes, I have an ICMizer account and I have cardrunners EV.

    Do you have equilab? Yes.

    Do you know how much equity you have with a FD against a top pair? Without looking in equilab I would use the 4-2 rule. 9 Outs * 4 = 36% equity.

    Do you know the „basic equities“ in general? I have created postflop tabels for basic spots. So for example I hold a bottom pair + FD on flop. I limp cbet and villains jams @10bb effective stack size. I should call in this spot. But thats of course very basic. I have created the tabels for different hands and stack sizes. But until now I have created my tabels only for 10bb and under. So there is also still something where I should work on.

    Do you know all kinds of flop bets and when to execute them? I have analyzed different board textures vs. the population checkback tendencies. So I can see how often villain holds what cards on different board textures.
    That helps me to see where I should limp cbet and where I should not limp cbet. But of course I should do that also vs. different min-raise ranges. I think I should make these workouts also for different ranges percentages so that I can get a better feeling. But often I´m not sure if my workouts are helpful or just waste of time. :-/

    Here is an example:

    Villain check-back range: 66.10% K6s-K2s,Q8s-Q2s,J8s-J2s,T8s-T2s,92s+,82s+,72s+,62s+,52s+,42s+,32s,K7o-K2o,Q8o-Q2o,J8o-J2o,T8o-T2o,92o+,82o+,72o+,62o+,52o+,42o+,32o

    For example on a board like: Q 4 3
    Villain will hold ~10% of the time a Q with the check-back range from above.

     

    Do you know how to find the right value to bluff ratio ? No.

    bencb789
    Keymaster
    Post count: 1331

    I know how to calculate them and what pot odds I need if I have x outs.

    Can you also apply it ingame without using external help?

     

    Yes, I have an ICMizer account and I have cardrunners EV.

    Do you use it on a regular basis?

    Without looking in equilab I would use the 4-2 rule. 9 Outs * 4 = 36% equity.

    Again, are you capable applying this knowledge ingame without thinking about it for too long.

    Do you know all kinds of flop bets and when to execute them? I have analyzed different board textures vs. the population checkback tendencies. So I can see how often villain holds what cards on different board textures.
    That helps me to see where I should limp cbet and where I should not limp cbet. But of course I should do that also vs. different min-raise ranges. I think I should make these workouts also for different ranges percentages so that I can get a better feeling. But often I´m not sure if my workouts are helpful or just waste of time.

    That was not my question. Do you know all kinds of different flop bets and when to execute them?

    Do you know how to find the right value to bluff ratio ? No.

    Work on that. Do you know what this means?

     

    happyfish
    Participant
    Post count: 12

    I know how to calculate them and what pot odds I need if I have x outs.

    Can you also apply it ingame without using external help?

    Yes.

    Yes, I have an ICMizer account and I have cardrunners EV.

    Do you use it on a regular basis?

    Yes, but only cardrunners EV. I have used ICMizer just a few times.

    Without looking in equilab I would use the 4-2 rule. 9 Outs * 4 = 36% equity.

    Again, are you capable applying this knowledge ingame without thinking about it for too long.

    Yes

    Do you know all kinds of flop bets and when to execute them? I have analyzed different board textures vs. the population checkback tendencies. So I can see how often villain holds what cards on different board textures.
    That helps me to see where I should limp cbet and where I should not limp cbet. But of course I should do that also vs. different min-raise ranges. I think I should make these workouts also for different ranges percentages so that I can get a better feeling. But often I´m not sure if my workouts are helpful or just waste of time.

    That was not my question. Do you know all kinds of different flop bets and when to execute them?

    I can´t imagine that I know all the different flop bets and when to execute them. But I try to explian what I know already:
    I try to adjust my bet sizes to the specific situations. If I think that villains range hits on a board very bad then I use a 35% or 40% pot size bet for example. Because most of the time he will fold vs. a 35% pot size bet the same amount of hands like vs. a 50% flop cbet. If I hold a top pair on a wet board then I bet 50% or 65% of the pot. Because I don´t want to give villain good odds. But I don´t think so that I choose everytime the correct bet sizes. Probably I bet also sometimes when I should check and sometimes I check when I should bet.

    Do you know how to find the right value to bluff ratio ? No.

    Work on that. Do you know what this means?

    I guess I know it.

    For exampel above you have wrote: “It depends on your sizing. On the river, if you bet potsize your opponent gets 33% on his money. So he has to be right every 3rd time, right ?
    That means, we have to bluff every 3rd time. -> 2:1 value/bluff ratio”

    If I bet pot on river then villain will get 2:1 pot odds. He needs to win 1 of 3 times to be breakeven. 1/3=33%

    -Amount of situations: 2 times, $10 Pot hero checks and villain checks. Villain has won 2 times $10 so he has $20.
    -Amount of situations: 1 time, $10 Pot hero bets pot and villain calls and hero wins. Hero has won a $20 pot.
    – So overall we had 3 game situations and both player are breakeven.

    If I bet 1/2pot on river then villain will get 3:1 pot odds. He needs to win 1 of 4 times to be breakeven. 1/4=25%
    So I must bet every 4th time.

    I hope this is correct. :-/

    bencb789
    Keymaster
    Post count: 1331

    Yes, I have an ICMizer account and I have cardrunners EV.

    Do you use it on a regular basis?

    Yes, but only cardrunners EV. I have used ICMizer just a few times.

     

    For headsup hypers/turbos mandatory! How else do you want to analyze calling/rejaming/pushings spots ?

     

    I can´t imagine that I know all the different flop bets and when to execute them. But I try to explian what I know already:
    I try to adjust my bet sizes to the specific situations. If I think that villains range hits on a board very bad then I use a 35% or 40% pot size bet for example. Because most of the time he will fold vs. a 35% pot size bet the same amount of hands like vs. a 50% flop cbet. If I hold a top pair on a wet board then I bet 50% or 65% of the pot. Because I don´t want to give villain good odds. But I don´t think so that I choose everytime the correct bet sizes. Probably I bet also sometimes when I should check and sometimes I check when I should bet.

    Thats already decent basic knowledge. How big would you bet when your intention is to deny him equity and you just want to protect your hand but you dont really have a clear value nor bluff bet ?

     

    If I bet 1/2pot on river then villain will get 3:1 pot odds. He needs to win 1 of 4 times to be breakeven. 1/4=25%
    So I must bet every 4th time.

    I hope this is correct. :-/

    You must bluff every 4th time.

    But yes its correct.

     

    So what you should work/focus on

    -> Calling/pushing/rejaming against certain ranges (diff. playertypes) with icmizer or holdem ressources calculator.

    And then just grinding a lot.

    Focusing more on making decisions based on YOUR OPPONENTS range and not thinking about being balanced (nobody plays gto on lowstakes).

    yeahitsclose
    Participant
    Post count: 1

    Sup Sup.

    I dont understand why people recommend not to focus on GTO. I mean a good pokerplayer should know at least a little bit what the “correct” way to play is(the more the better). Knowing that it becomes much easier to find leaks in villains gameplan and where we are exploitable when exploiting. Sure, you dont want to play a balanced range on the micros, though it wouldnt be bad at all. You can can win much more exploiting villains/poplations tendencies. BUT…I believe that new or not so experienced players should not focus on how to beat the micros. Focus on becoming a good pokerplayer! Beating the Micros then will be a byproduct.

    PEACE

    fallout86
    Participant
    Post count: 122

    Hey op,

    i think you made a valid point. Its important to know which line is the best and what your push and callingrange should look like. But you will lose a ton of ev, when you only focus on your own range cause the players play their ranges really bad on the micros. Most players on the micros have huge leaks and thats why you should change your strategy in a lot of spots.

    greetz falli

    bencb789
    Keymaster
    Post count: 1331

    @yeahitsclose

    I def see your point. The problem tho is, that people set the wrong priorities. Would you recommend someone learning GTO when he doesnt even know basic things?
    I have experienced so many students that wanted to get more into GTO and they didnt even know how many outs an OESD has.

    So in OPs case, when he plays hyper HU and he is not even using ICMizer or any other tool like this, how is he gonna able to strengthen his preflop fundamentals. And then he wants to work with card runners EV. And the EV you are making with these analysis on lowstakes is so little that it is often not worth (but its worth on midstakes+ due edges getting smaller). And for the majority, they just want to have a side income. They you have a way higher hourly by 1. grinding and 2. working on your straight forward poker fundamentals.
    I agree with you if someone wants to become a true poker pro 100%. Then its worth to give up value on lowstakes in order to be better prepared for highstakes.

    happyfish
    Participant
    Post count: 12

    For headsup hypers/turbos mandatory! How else do you want to analyze calling/rejaming/pushings spots ?

    I have used CardrunnersEV for that. I mean I get the same results like with ICMizer.

    How big would you bet when your intention is to deny him equity and you just want to protect your hand but you dont really have a clear value nor bluff bet ?

    That an interesting question. But I have not a clear answer. I can just say what I could imagine:
    So let´s say villain holds AK on a board like 286. Villain has 6 outs to improve his hand to a top pair. If he holds 6 outs then he needs pot odds of 6.83
    Let´s say the pot is $10. Now Im going to bet just $1 in this $10 pot. So villain will get pot odds of 11:1 so he has the correct odds for calling. But if I bet $5 into $10 then he will get just 3:1 pot odds. If villain has no implied odds then he makes a mistake at this point when he calls.
    So my answer would be: Bet big enough that villain makes a mistake when he calls.

    I have also stil a very basic question.

    Let me give you a simple toy-game example:

    Hero(BB): 65o

    Villain (SB): K7s-K2s,Q7s-Q2s,J7s-J2s,T8s-T2s,98s-92s,87s-82s,76s-72s,65s-62s,54s-52s,43s-42s,32s,A4o-A2o,K7o-K2o,Q8o-Q2o,J8o-J2o,T8o-T2o,98o-94o,87o-84o,76o-74o,65o-64o,54o-53o,43o,32o

    BB flop betting range:

    Toppairs:
    8c3c,8c4h,8c4c,8c4d,8c4s,8c6h,8c6c,8c6d,8c6s,8c7h,8c7c,8c7d,8c7s,8d3d,8d4h,8d4c,8d4d,8d4s,8d6h,8d6c,8d6d,8d6s,8d7h,8d7c,8d7d,8d7s,8s3s,8s4h,8s4c,8s4d,8s4s,8s6h,8s6c,8s6d,8s6s,8s7h,8s7c,8s7d,8s7s,9h8c,9h8d,9h8s,9c8c,9c8d,9c8s,9s8c,9s8d,9s8s,Th8c,Th8d,Th8s,Tc8c,Tc8d,Tc8s,Td8c,Td8d,Td8s,Ts8c,Ts8d,Ts8s,Jh8c,Jh8d,Jh8s,Jc8d,Jc8s,Jd8c,Jd8s,Js8c,Js8d,Qh8c,Qh8d,Qh8s,Qc8d,Qc8s,Qd8c,Qd8s,Qs8c,Qs8d

    Midpairs:
    5h3h,5h3c,5h3d,5h3s,5h4h,5h4c,5h4d,5h4s,5d3h,5d3c,5d3d,5d3s,5d4h,5d4c,5d4d,5d4s,5s3h,5s3c,5s3d,5s3s,5s4h,5s4c,5s4d,5s4s,6h5h,6h5d,6h5s,6c5h,6c5d,6c5s,6d5h,6d5d,6d5s,6s5h,6s5d,6s5s,7h5h,7h5d,7h5s,7c5h,7c5d,7c5s,7d5h,7d5d,7d5s,7s5h,7s5d,7s5s,9h5h,9h5d,9h5s,9c5h,9c5d,9c5s,9s5h,9s5d,9s5s,Th5h,Th5d,Th5s,Tc5h,Tc5d,Tc5s,Td5h,Td5d,Td5s,Ts5h,Ts5d,Ts5s,Jh5h,Jh5d,Jh5s,Jc5h,Jc5d,Jc5s,Jd5h,Jd5d,Jd5s,Js5h,Js5d,Js5s,Qh5h,Qh5d,Qh5s,Qc5h,Qc5d,Qc5s,Qd5h,Qd5d,Qd5s,Qs5h,Qs5d,Qs5s,Kh5h,Kh5d,Kh5s,Kc5h,Kc5d,Kc5s,Kd5h,Kd5d,Kd5s,Ks5h,Ks5d,Ks5s

    SB: 25bb stack
    BB: 25bb stack
    Blinds: 0.50bb / 1bb

    SB limp, BB checks
    Flop: 8h 5c 2s , Pot: 2bb

    BB check, SB bet 1bb
    BB calls 1bb (BB gets 3:1 pot odds, so he needs 25% equity for his call.)

    This is a +EV call if the BB sees 100% of the time a showdown.
    Should I really call everytime if I get the correct odds? Or should I have x% equity for the call so that I don´t get to often in trouble with equity realization. Do I need x% equity so that my call is also still +EV when I realise just 85% or 90% of my equity?

    bencb789
    Keymaster
    Post count: 1331

    For headsup hypers/turbos mandatory! How else do you want to analyze calling/rejaming/pushings spots ?

    I have used CardrunnersEV for that. I mean I get the same results like with ICMizer.

    Oh, okay =)

    Thats good.

     

    How big would you bet when your intention is to deny him equity and you just want to protect your hand but you dont really have a clear value nor bluff bet ?

    denying someone his equity is important when you neither have a clear value bet nor a bluff bet.

    So for example:

    KQs on 772,
    A3 on T53
    K2s on J52
    AK on T88
    A8 on T53

    So especially on boards where our opponent missed the flop frequently and we often have the best hand, yet we dont have a valuebet.
    So we just bet 1/3 pot in order to make him fold his 6 outer.

     

    alekroin
    Participant
    Post count: 1

    You should check http://www.headsuphyper.com there is a lot of good free content.

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